Presidency of the Council of the European Union

Is "rotam" a word? Mp3 ringtones Wik/Wik 00:19, Sep 13, 2003

:It's not in any dictionary I can find. Lay The Kat User:Mic/Mic changed it to "rotam" from what looks like the correct "rota" - not sure why. I'll change it back. Music ringtones User:Camembert/Camembert

:Actually, "rota" might not be ideal, because according to the dictionaries it's "chiefly British". I can't think of a more international alternative off the top of my head, though, so I'll let someone else deal with that. Christine Mendoza User:Camembert/Camembert

::I made some changes to the article which quite inaccurately had been termed "Presidency of the European Commission". The links leading to the page were however accurately termed "Presidency of the European Union" and that's where I believe that it would serve its purpose and it was moved accordingly. It however seems that it has it has mutated again and become "President of the European Council". The Precidency of the European Union by one of its member countries and the President of the European Council by the said country's head of state or head of government are two spearate, though closely related functions. One shouldn't be confused for the other and the contents of the article should be styled accordingly. The half year presidency is an institutional function within the union, while one of the primary functions of the president is to head the European Council summit, which gathers the competences required to make changes to the instutitional structures of the union. I think the added content is good but the two instances should be kept separate, unless a there is a convincing case why and how the two aspects should be integrated under a single entry.
::Regarding "rotam" which probably isn't a good term or even a word for that matter - was picked up from within the article without checking it first. Bollywood ringtones Mic/Mic 22:33, Sep 14, 2003

There is no such thing as the ''Presidency of the European Union'' not least because there is no entity called the European Union. The intra-national entity is called the European Community. The European Union is simply a treaty-based relationship between ''states'' that was built among states in the Community but not an entity in itself, hence for example, we still have European ''Community'' law, not European ''Union'' law, though the latter term is occasionally and inaccurately used by some commentators who don't understand the legal and constitutional distinction between the Union and the Community, and think that the European Union is simply a new name for the European Community when as the Treaty of Nice made clear it is nothing of the sort. The forthcoming Treaty of Dublin, also known as the European constitution, may create a presidency of the Union, but as of now, no such entity exists.

Two presidencies exist within the European Community; the Presidency/President of the Commission and the Presidency/President of the Council. Some politicians when holding the latter like to call themselves such nonsense as 'President of Europe' and 'President of the Union' but no such office exists. Cyber Sasha Jtdirl/FearÉIREANN 22:51, 14 Sep 2003

Regardless of the status of the European Community as an entity versus the frequent use of the name European Union, the Council of the European Union, fomerly the Council of Ministers is one of the institutions of the European Community. The chairmanship of the Council of the European Union rotates between the member states accoring to a predetermined order. This is the form of presidency is an existing function and I'm not sure if you're attepting to counter argue this practice or if you're just unhappy with the terminology. The European Council however not an organ of neither the European Communities nor of a European Union. Ringtones for motorola Mic/Mic 23:11, Sep 14, 2003

There is no terminology problem. There ''is'' no such thing as President of the European Union. There never has been. There is the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, nothing else. And yes the European Council is an organ of the EC. Jamie Hammer Jtdirl/FearÉIREANN 18:41, 15 Sep 2003

Well, that statement is not a response to anything. The Presidency of the European Union, the EU Presidency, the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, or name it what you will, is an essential function of a primal European Community institution, without which there would be no Community legislation. As you yourself pointed out the European Union has no legal standing as an entity and stating that the European Council is an official organ of the European Communities is simply ridiculous. It has no such status and the claim has no foundation. Hotlink caller ringtones Mic/Mic 17:59, Sep 16, 2003

You are seriously mixing up terms and institutions.

1. There is '''no such thing''' as the ''presidency of the European Union'', '''no such thing''' as an ''EU presidency'', '''no such thing''' as a ''presidency of the Council of the European Union''. You seem not to grasp that one '''cannot''' ''name it as you will'' (as you put it). As with all legal institutions, there is ''one'' name and one name ''only'', ''President/presidency of the Council''.

You also seem to think that the European Council and the Council of the Union are the same. Not so. The European Council is the body made up of prime ministers/presidents from the states, accompanied by foreign ministers. The Council of the Union is an over-reaching body made up of the presidency, the European Council and the Councils of Ministers. As to the claim that ''stating that the European Council is an official organ of the European Communities is simply ridiculous. It has no such status and the claim has no foundation'' that is so absurd as to beggar belief. It is '''explicitly''' named and given status in all the European Treaties. Look at the texts:

'''Article 7'''

1. The tasks entrusted to the Community shall be carried out by the following institutions:

- a EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT,

- a COUNCIL,

- a COMMISSION,

- a COURT OF JUSTICE,

- a COURT OF AUDITORS.

Each institution shall act within the limits of the powers conferred upon it by this Treaty.

2. The Council and the Commission shall be assisted by an Economic and Social Committee and a Committee of the Regions acting in an advisory capacity.

. . .

'''Article 202'''

To ensure that the objectives set out in this Treaty are attained the Council shall, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty:

- ensure coordination of the general economic policies of the Member States,

- have power to take decisions,

- confer on the Commission, in the acts which the Council adopts, powers for the implementation of the rules which the Council lays down. The Council may impose certain requirements in respect of the exercise of these powers. The Council may also reserve the right, in specific cases, to exercise directly implementing powers itself. The procedures referred to above must be consonant with principles and rules to be laid down in advance by the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the opinion of the European Parliament.

'''Article 203'''

The Council shall consist of a representative of each Member State at ministerial level, authorised to commit the government of that Member State.

The office of President shall be held in turn by each Member State in the Council for a term of six months in the order decided by the Council acting unanimously.

''Source: CONSOLIDATED VERSION OF THE TREATY ESTABLISHING THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY Official Journal C 325 , 24 December 2002

'''Article 13'''

1. The European Council shall define the principles of and general guidelines for the common foreign and security policy, including for matters with defence implications.

2. The European Council shall decide on common strategies to be implemented by the Union in areas where the Member States have important interests in common.

Common strategies shall set out their objectives, duration and the means to be made available by the Union and the Member States.

3. The Council shall take the decisions necessary for defining and implementing the common foreign and security policy on the basis of the general guidelines defined by the European Council.

The Council shall recommend common strategies to the European Council and shall implement them, in particular by adopting joint actions and common positions.

The Council shall ensure the unity, consistency and effectiveness of action by the Union.

''Source: CONSOLIDATED TEXT OF THE TREATY ON EUROPEAN UNION (Official Journal C 325 of 24 December 2002)''

The facts are clear. There is no executive presidency. The presidency, European Council and European Parliament act effectively as legislative branches of governance, The Council has full constitutional status alongside the presidency and parliament. The presidency is the Presidency of the Council, nothing else. The European Community (or more strictly speaking European Communities) are are intra-national body with a legal idenitity separate from the states. The European Union is not a renamed European Community but a legal community of states with no separate legal identity and persona, unlike the EC. Hence the EC continues to exist (producing EC law, never EU law) alongside the EU. Please understand the complex distinctions. Miss Luana Jtdirl/FearÉIREANN 19:02, 16 Sep 2003

It's a pity that you're not able to substantiate your claims. The European Council is mentioned in the Maastricht Treaty as quoted above, but this does not in any way make it an institution of the European Communities. The Maastricht Treaty establishes the European Union, a treaty-based relationship between states. Regardless of how much you want to quote the treaty text, the European Union is not an entity with a legal standing of its own, nor will it become that by publishing the other articles where the European Council is made reference to. Also, unless you have failed to notice, the issue that we're discussing is precisely the separation of the Council of the European Union and the European Council. The former is an institution of the European Communities the latter is not. Cingular Ringtones Mic/Mic 20:00, Sep 16, 2003

So the Treaties of the European Communities are all wrong then, the websites associated with the EU and EC, the websites of member states, the laws about the EC enacted in member states are all wrong, in fact everyone is wrong??? You started off with absurd claims about some non-existent ''Presidency of the European Union'', and an odd redirect that made no sense whatsoever between Presidency of the European Union and Presidency of the Commission. I dug up some notes on a lecture on European Integration delivered by a former President of the Commission where he talked of the "centrality of the European Council as a vehicle for executive co-ordination" he talking about how its role as a "premier Community institution" made it potentially an "engine of the European evolution . . . its creation marking the co-ordination of states within the Community and giving the Community practical as opposed to theoretical entity status". (The President of the Commission was Roy Jenkins, BTW) should make Jtdirl/FearÉIREANN 01:41, 17 Sep 2003

Well, as per your statement that the European Council is an official institution of the European Communities, I'm still waiting for you to refer to an official document supporting that. The quoting of the Maastricht treaty text, while not constituting a basis for the European Communities, did at least show some promise in that you seemingly were making an effort. Resorting to your personal lecture notes, which hardly is an authoritative source in the matter, seems, in lack of better word, futile.

If you are in fact still purporting your claim that the European Council is an official institution of the European Communities, then I'm absolutely puzzled over your relentless inability to substantiate it by appropriate and valid documentation in any way. If your claim is indeed justifiable why are you unable to demonstrate this in any manner remotely satisfactory? Surely with your mastery of these complex distinctions that shouldn't constitute any kind of a problem. colson says Mic/Mic 15:37, Sep 17, 2003

No additional comments has posted since the middle of September. The page will be moved to articles of Presidency of the Council of the European Union. stop doing Mic/Mic 15:36, Nov 9, 2003

Presidency of various Councils
detroit though Sjorford/Sjorford wrote: ''The post as President of the Council of the European Union is for each separate meeting held by the responsible its pop government minister of the member state holding the Presidency, usually the on advice foreign minister.'' I've removed the clause "''usually the foreign minister''" since this isn't true - even for the UK. Each Council meeting is chaired by the presiding member state's minister from the appropriate policy area, So, for instance, if Ireland holds the presidency, then the Environment Council is chaired by the Irish environment minister, the Home Affairs Council by the Irish home affairs minister, and so on. And, of course, the confirmed cases European Council (meeting of heads of government) is chaired by the Irish prime minister. Hope this clarifies things. left splitsville User:Randywombat/Toby W 07:40, 20 Jul 2004

In the table the line "Second half-year" is spread over two lines. To make the table look neater and because I myself am not able to manipulate the table could someone please edit the table so that "Second-half year" fits into one line. The "Ministers responsible" column still has the space. Thanks.